Want to Prance

[tech27]

I'm looking to add my first Ferrari to my stable, something I could pick up
for $50K US or so. The only thing that is holding me back are comments like
"okay as long as you mechanic lives with you", or something like that. I
hear this SO much! I just want to get a realistic handle on this perception.

For instance, I was warned a long time ago how expensive it would be to fix
a BMW. I've had at least one BMW since 1987 up to my current 540 and M5, and
while they are not "cheap" to fix, the fact it that I haven't had to fix
them that much so the cost of ownership is/was probably cheaper than trying
to keep some Big 3 piece of crap on the road.

What can I expect from a Ferrari as indicated? Is it possible to do much
maintenance/minor repair oneself? Will I really be looking at repair bills
as big as the price of a Ford Focus?

Your candid replies will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

[Paul Duffin]

Post by tech27
I'm looking to add my first Ferrari to my stable, something I could
pick up for $50K US or so. The only thing that is holding me back are
comments like "okay as long as you mechanic lives with you", or
something like that. I hear this SO much! I just want to get a
realistic handle on this perception.

Hi Tech (Hi-tech!!)

I guess part of the answer depends on how skilled you are as a mechanic,
if you can service a Ferrari, you're going to save *some* money,
however the real costs are parts, and Ferrari parts prices are... well,
hilarious. Basically everything costs about five times what it would for an
'average' car. Of course this varies according to the part in question, but
the
difficulty is that so many parts must be Ferrari supplied, so you have to
pay
their prices.

Tightly coupled to this unfortunate fact, is that you're buying an 'old car'
and
even Ferraris suffer over the years. Now most people who actually own a
Ferrari will tell you that they seem to survive better than most cars -
however
a lot of this can be put down to the fact that most people don't put that
many
miles on them.

My experience is based on owing an '84 308 GTS, which I have had since
1995 and which gets driven hard (no, I don't mean smoking the tyres at
traffic lights - I mean touring extensively up and down the Alps!) -
I've had various problems over the years and these include
(in ascending order of severity):

Seized callipers (three, over the years)
Worn differential
Worn rear shaft
Synchro failed on third gear
Corroded oil cooler (which 'took out' one of the petrol tanks)
Rust.

As you can see, most of these are simply 'wear & tear' issues, which you
have to expect on a car which is 20 years old.

Bottom line - a typical annual trip to the garage (specialist, but not
dealer) costs me £1,500 - £2,000 (double that for dollars).
BUT that can double if something expensive needs replacing.

You also have to budget for a host of silly little things that
nonetheless will cost you big. for example - the other week a
side light (running light in the US?) failed. 'That'll be a bulb'
I thought - nope. 'Ok, the contact is a bit rusty, I'll clean it' -
nope. 'Ok, I'll remove the bumper, take out the light unit and
have a look' - turns out to be no more than a broken piece of
the plastic mounting for the bulb. I call Ferrari UK, and yes,
the have one in stock, *but* the 'part number' covers the
plastic mounting, the connectors, a set of screws and the lens!
and they'd like £100 for it.

Shite.

I decide (since I have the bumper off) to take a look at the
other unit and yes, its 'on its way out'...

so, that will be TWO units, then. In short, it went from a one
dollar light bulb to about $400 in about twenty minutes...

...and THAT is what Ferrari ownership is like.

Check out my web site for the rust story, and other pics

I hope this helps, Phil will be along in a minute to give you
more information.


Paul

P.S Its worth every penny!!!!!
--
Http://www.redmist.freeserve.co.uk (Now featuring the a.a.f. directory)

[tech27]

Post by Paul Duffin
Paul
P.S Its worth every penny!!!!!
--
Http://www.redmist.freeserve.co.uk (Now featuring the a.a.f. directory)

Thanks for the info.
I'm fully aware that any 20+ year old car will need more upkeep, so that
doesn't surprise me. As for things like rust - thank God you don't have to
have "Ferrari Bodyworks" do the repairs, so at least you can shop for the
best deals and workmanship.

I'm sure when you said "P.S Its worth every penny!!!!!" you were referring
to the ownership experience, not the "light bulb"! (-;

Insane part prices are just that, insane. I guess that given the initial
cost of the cars the prices are commensurate, but still annoying. I'm sure
that to replace all the parts on a 1982 BMW 3 series would cost the same as
buying a new M5. And the same job on a 84 Mondial would be just less than an
Enzo.

C'est la vie.

[Iain Miller]

Post by tech27
I'm looking to add my first Ferrari to my stable, something I could pick up
for $50K US or so. The only thing that is holding me back are comments like
"okay as long as you mechanic lives with you", or something like that. I
hear this SO much! I just want to get a realistic handle on this perception.
For instance, I was warned a long time ago how expensive it would be to fix
a BMW. I've had at least one BMW since 1987 up to my current 540 and M5, and
while they are not "cheap" to fix, the fact it that I haven't had to fix
them that much so the cost of ownership is/was probably cheaper than trying
to keep some Big 3 piece of crap on the road.
What can I expect from a Ferrari as indicated? Is it possible to do much
maintenance/minor repair oneself? Will I really be looking at repair bills
as big as the price of a Ford Focus?
Your candid replies will be greatly appreciated.

Sounds like you are in 328/348 territory with that kind of money - I doubt
you would get into a 355 for that but I'd imagine you'd get a good 328/348.
You might get into a Testarossa if 12 cylinders is your thing - I'm not that
up to speed with the market prices.

328s are at least 15 years old now, 348s, 10 or so year's old

The maintenance bill you get will depend on how good the car is when you buy
it - unless you get very lucky you should expect to spend several $1,000 on
bring it up to spec & sorting it out to where you want it to be - and
secondly on the mileage you intend to do (and of course the mileage the car
has done). That said they are fairly simple cars without too much in the way
of electronics and , in many respects, pretty bomb-proof. What you "hear"
about needing a mechanic living with you is most likely from people who
"heard it" somewhere else !

I've had a 328 for the last 5 years - in that time I've put about 10K miles
on it & it hasn't needed anything other than basic, scheduled maintenance &
a set of brake pads. Overall its a fallacy that properly maintained Ferraris
spend half their lives on a workshop ramp.

One or two of our residents here do their own spannering - on 308s & 328s -
whether you can depends on the facilities you have & your own
capabilities/inclintion to do so!

348s tend to be more expensive to maintain - changing the cambelts (every 3
years) involves removing the engine because it's mounted "North-South".

There's been a lot written here about this kind of stuff in the last few
years - have a Google & see what you can find

rgds

Iain

[Paul Duffin]

I've had a 328 for the last 5 years - in that time I've put about 10 miles
on it & it hasn't needed anything other than one tank of petrol.

No surprise there, then.

Paul

[Iain Miller]

Post by Paul Duffin

I've had a 328 for the last 5 years - in that time I've put about 10 miles
on it & it hasn't needed anything other than one tank of petrol.

No surprise there, then.

Fortunately though its still the right colour ;-)

[Ted Adlam]

I've also had a /87 328 for 5.5 years, spanning 10k miles, nothing but
regular maintenance (this included one "major service" @ $5k). Just about
due for my second major service next year. All service over 5.5 yrs works
out to $7.5k. Yearly car registration is less than $100, and insurance not
too bad @ $700/yr (Progressive). When you add all this up, and taking into
consideration the miniscule depreciation (nearly zero!), total cost of
ownership is quite reasonable. I figure less than what it would have been
had I bought a new 'vette in 2000. Heck, a new Vette in 2000 would have
suffered at least $15k in depreciation by now, even with only 10k miles.

I have on occasion thought about upgrading to a 355, but the Ferrari service
manager always brings me back to my senses...328's are very reliable and are
not burdened with lots of electronic doo-dads as are the newer models.
355's are much faster and I love the style though, maybe when NASDAQ hits
5000 again.

Ted.

Post by tech27

Post by tech27
I'm looking to add my first Ferrari to my stable, something I could pick

up

Post by tech27
for $50K US or so. The only thing that is holding me back are comments

like

Post by tech27
"okay as long as you mechanic lives with you", or something like that. I
hear this SO much! I just want to get a realistic handle on this

perception.

Post by tech27
For instance, I was warned a long time ago how expensive it would be to

fix

Post by tech27
a BMW. I've had at least one BMW since 1987 up to my current 540 and M5,

and

Post by tech27
while they are not "cheap" to fix, the fact it that I haven't had to fix
them that much so the cost of ownership is/was probably cheaper than

trying

Post by tech27
to keep some Big 3 piece of crap on the road.
What can I expect from a Ferrari as indicated? Is it possible to do much
maintenance/minor repair oneself? Will I really be looking at repair bills
as big as the price of a Ford Focus?
Your candid replies will be greatly appreciated.

Sounds like you are in 328/348 territory with that kind of money - I doubt
you would get into a 355 for that but I'd imagine you'd get a good 328/348.
You might get into a Testarossa if 12 cylinders is your thing - I'm not that
up to speed with the market prices.
328s are at least 15 years old now, 348s, 10 or so year's old
The maintenance bill you get will depend on how good the car is when you buy
it - unless you get very lucky you should expect to spend several $1,000 on
bring it up to spec & sorting it out to where you want it to be - and
secondly on the mileage you intend to do (and of course the mileage the car
has done). That said they are fairly simple cars without too much in the way
of electronics and , in many respects, pretty bomb-proof. What you "hear"
about needing a mechanic living with you is most likely from people who
"heard it" somewhere else !
I've had a 328 for the last 5 years - in that time I've put about 10K miles
on it & it hasn't needed anything other than basic, scheduled maintenance &
a set of brake pads. Overall its a fallacy that properly maintained Ferraris
spend half their lives on a workshop ramp.
One or two of our residents here do their own spannering - on 308s & 328s -
whether you can depends on the facilities you have & your own
capabilities/inclintion to do so!
348s tend to be more expensive to maintain - changing the cambelts (every 3
years) involves removing the engine because it's mounted "North-South".
There's been a lot written here about this kind of stuff in the last few
years - have a Google & see what you can find
rgds
Iain

[matt borland]

Post by Ted Adlam
I've also had a /87 328 for 5.5 years, spanning 10k miles,

<snippage>

Everybody welcome Lurker Ted, who to my knowledge
hasn't posted on here before, at least not under this name.


<cue 'everybody'>


"Welcome Lurker Ted!"



-Matt- "I won't call you a lurker after this, I promise."

[C5]

Post by Ted Adlam
I've also had a /87 328 for 5.5 years, spanning 10k miles, nothing but
due for my second major service next year. All service over 5.5 yrs works
out to $7.5k. Yearly car registration is less than $100, and insurance not
consideration the miniscule depreciation (nearly zero!), total cost of
ownership is quite reasonable. I figure less than what it would have been
had I bought a new 'vette in 2000. Heck, a new Vette in 2000 would have
suffered at least $15k in depreciation by now, even with only 10k miles.
I have on occasion thought about upgrading to a 355, but the Ferrari service
manager always brings me back to my senses...328's are very reliable and are
not burdened with lots of electronic doo-dads as are the newer models.
355's are much faster and I love the style though, maybe when NASDAQ hits
5000 again.
Ted.

Any reason to believe the 355s are less reliable than the 328?

[Ted Adlam]

The reliability thing is based only on anecdotal information, since I have
never owned a Ferrari other than my 328. Since some of this info comes
directly from the Scottsdale Ferrari service manager, I tend to give it some
heed! He tells me "nothing much ever seems to go wrong with 328's". And
this has been my experience across 5.5 years.

Here's the thing: seems like most cars built since the mid-90's have a very
high content of electronics and cute little gizmos (power seats, power tops,
computerized climate controls, etc.). And they all break eventually,
whether Ferrari, Mercedes, Volvo, GM, or whatever. The 308/328 series
therefore benefits on two counts:
1) Relative design simplicity (no power seats, few electronics gizmos, heck
not even power steering)
2) Some parts are rather common and inexpensive (e.g., spark plugs are
standard issue as opposed to the 355's expensive type)

There are a bunch of 355 owners here on alt.auto.ferrari, maybe some of them
can chime in with their experiences. No question the 355 is a far more
capable performance car, and I do lust after one. But not having limitless
financial resources, I have to stick with what I've got.

Ted.

Post by Paul Duffin

Post by Ted Adlam
I've also had a /87 328 for 5.5 years, spanning 10k miles, nothing but
due for my second major service next year. All service over 5.5 yrs works
out to $7.5k. Yearly car registration is less than $100, and insurance

not
into

Post by Ted Adlam
consideration the miniscule depreciation (nearly zero!), total cost of
ownership is quite reasonable. I figure less than what it would have been
had I bought a new 'vette in 2000. Heck, a new Vette in 2000 would have
suffered at least $15k in depreciation by now, even with only 10k miles.
I have on occasion thought about upgrading to a 355, but the Ferrari

service

Post by Ted Adlam
manager always brings me back to my senses...328's are very reliable and

are

Post by Ted Adlam
not burdened with lots of electronic doo-dads as are the newer models.
355's are much faster and I love the style though, maybe when NASDAQ hits
5000 again.
Ted.

Any reason to believe the 355s are less reliable than the 328?

[Iain Miller]

Post by Paul Duffin

Post by Ted Adlam
I have on occasion thought about upgrading to a 355, but the Ferrari

service

Post by Ted Adlam
manager always brings me back to my senses...328's are very reliable and

are

Post by Ted Adlam
not burdened with lots of electronic doo-dads as are the newer models.
355's are much faster and I love the style though, maybe when NASDAQ hits
5000 again.
Ted.

Any reason to believe the 355s are less reliable than the 328?

Anectodatally, a lot more engine problems - particularly around exhaust
headers with cars that have been used with some vigour (!)

Great car none the less but definitly more expensive to maintain.

I.